Language was developed for one endeavor, and that is - Mr. Anderson? Come on, are you a man or an amoeba? Mr. Perry?
To communicate.
No! To woo women!
Excrement! That's what I think of Mr. J. Evans Pritchard! We're not
laying pipe! We're talking about poetry. How can you describe poetry
like American Bandstand? "I like Byron, I give him a 42 but I can't
dance to it!"
But if you listen real close, you can hear them whisper their legacy
to you. Go on, lean in. Listen, you hear it? —Carpe—hear it?—Carpe, carpe diem, seize the day boys, make your lives extraordinary.
For the first time in my whole life, I know what I wanna do! And for the
first time, I'm gonna do it! Whether my father wants me to or not!
Carpe diem!
We're going to talk a little more about Dead Poets Society before we start Fearless. We'll finish Fearless on Tuesday, give you the essay topic, and then on Thursday you will have the test.
Dead Poets Society really gets people going. As Jenny said on Friday (echoed by Sohail), it's manipulative, but a large part of its manipulation is how it manipulates the conventions of its genre—the inspiring teacher narrative. Katie mentioned Mona Lisa Smile. Others include Stand and Deliver, Dangerous Minds, Mr. Holland's Opus, To Sir With Love, etc, etc. etc. Peter Weir allows to view John Keating as both the solution and, to some degree, the problem, to the real world choices these boys will face. The easy enemy here is Welton with its extolling of tradition; yet it helped create Keating. It is not Miss Appleyard's School with all its repressed sexuality and truly weird headistress. The parents are the easy enemy; yet Neil's father is really looking for his son. And who can forget his anguished "Oh my son! Oh my son!" Keating says—as does Weir—that we must remind ourselves to constantly look at things in a different way.
1. Make a case for Keating as Allie Fox's more palatable brother. You don't have to hate Keating to do this. But it's clear that whether you like it or not, Keating and Allie—and Jack Aubrey as well—are spiritual siblings. Don't shy away from the harder parts of this question. Don't excuse Keating because he is inspirational, cares for the kids, loves literature, looks good in tweed; don't excuse him because you like him. Do what he tells his kids to do: look at him through a different lens.
2. Clark asked several times in class on Friday, what does it mean, what's the importance, of the last words of the film. This is as Keating is leaving the school, and half the class stands on their desks. It's a powerful moment, no doubt—the synthesizer is swelling, the boys tower on their desks, the headmaster is powerless, and Keating is holding back his tears. "Thank you, boys, thank you." So what's he thinking them for? And to what point in the film?
Tomorrow, we'll start out last film in our study Peter Weir: Fearless, made in 1993, starring Jeff Bridges, Rosie Perez, and Isabella Rossellini. It's a doozy.
1. Fox and Keating both don't follow the social conventions, they want to find a new way. Keating definitely doesn't teach the 'standard' way because he makes them rip out some parts of the text book. I talked about that in my last blog post, but I think its a good portion of what the film is about. I also think that Fox and Keating end up with a bad result in the outcome because Keating looses his jobs and Fox dies in the end. I think Aubrey is similar to them because he doesn't take anyone else's advice throughout the film, and that happens to Fox and Keating too.But on the other hand Aubrey is very different because nothing bad happens to him at the end of Master and Commander.
ReplyDelete2. They're showing him that he is still a great teacher, and that they learned something from him. He wasn't just any average teacher, he was different, and I think they enjoyed that aspect of him. I think Keating is making references to what he taught them before because he said that you can look at things differently and one way of doing that is by standing on your desk. Also that shows a sign of support too. I think that they were a particularly close class, so they had a lot of memories and feelings with Keating.
1. Allie had a way of looking at the world, and he forced those views onto his family. Keating had a way of seeing the world, and he forced those views onto his students. Just because Keating preaches free thinking doesn’t make him a better person than Allie. It is hard to reconcile Keating beliefs with the way he teaches them; he encourages his students to think for themselves and challenge what they’ve been taught, but in the process, not a lot of free thinking is being done in his classroom. He demands they tear out the introduction without any discussion, he requires they write a poem and recite. The demands of Keating’s classroom are no different from any other classroom at Welton, however we as an audience are led to believe that Keating is providing these students with an environment totally different from what they are used to. I would also argue that Charlie and the boys at Welton are better off once these two almost tyrannical figures leave their lives, because in Charlie’s case the world is now “limitless,” and the boys at Welton now have more freedom to shape their own opinions about the world apart from Keating’s.
ReplyDelete2. Part of the teacher narrative in film is that the students end up teaching the teacher, and I always viewed this moment Keating thanking the boys for showing him just how powerful his voice was. Like we said in class, we have no idea what Keating’s life was back in England, but he must have been somewhat unhappy with this job there to come to Welton without much notice. I think that Keating had never gotten the same kind of uproarious response to his teaching, and to have all these boys really listen to him and understand him was overwhelming for Keating. It’s a cheesy genre trope, but I really to think that Keating is inspired by these boys and as a result he is forever changed by them.
1. Allie had an extremely unconventional way of looking at the world, and he took that way of looking at the world and forced his family to come with him on his self-searching journey. Keating also had an offbeat way of seeing the world, and in all honesty, he pushed this way of thinking onto his students through his teaching. In the process, he actually goes against what he’s teaching: he’s teaching free thinking but he doesn’t give an option to “stick to the system”. I completely agree with Jenny’s point that
ReplyDelete“It is hard to reconcile Keating beliefs with the way he teaches them; he encourages his students to think for themselves and challenge what they’ve been taught, but in the process, not a lot of free thinking is being done in his classroom.” He is just going against Welton’s traditions in the same manner they teach. Teaching free speech/thought in a tyrannical way, as some have said. I think that Keating’s presence in these boys’ lives is helpful to them, but if he had held back a little bit, he would’ve made more of an impact, as Allie would have as well if he hadn’t been so damn gung-ho about everything he did.
2. To have an impact on someone else’s life makes just as much of an impact on yours. Keating feels responsible for Neil’s death to an extent, whether or not he is, and to see these boys accept him even after that means a lot to him. There is an idea of a real love between Keating and these boys, because even though he may do it in a tyrannical manner, Keating really teaches these boys their worth and their ability to do more than what others expect of them. In turn, I think the boys teach Keating the same thing.
1. Both Allie and Keating were narrow-minded in the sense that they had their own ways of looking at the world and refused to see otherwise. Although Keating teaches the philosophy of “free thinking” and carpe diem with good intentions, he forces it on his students and doesn’t allow them to voice their opinions on anything—like when he didn’t ask them for their opinion on Pritchett’s essay and, as a result, made his word the law in his classroom just like the other teachers at Welton. Allie also had good intentions and only wanted the best for his family, but he really forces his unconventional thinking onto them and nearly destroys them in the process. I agree with Molly that if both characters had stepped back and not been so controlling all the time, both may have made a greater and more positive impact.
ReplyDelete2. We know that Keating is there at Welton because he loves teaching so much and we know that all Allie really wanted was to be appreciated for his genius. So, I think that in his last words of thanks to the boys, Keating then knows that he hugely influenced these kids with his teaching and realizes how powerful his voice really was so as to inspire them to sacrifice their education by standing on the desks to make a point (I think that sentence made sense…) In those choked up last words, Keating is witnessing his power and understands that he is appreciated by someone, just like Allie strived to be.
Both Allie and Mr. Keating want to go against the norm in a world filled with straight lines. Allie thinks America is going down and moves to an unfamiliar place and builds civilization from almost nothing--not something you hear people do everyday. Mr. Keating comes to the school, having already dealt with strict rules and a plethora of pressure, and tries to teach the kids to diverge from the path set out before them by family and teachers. Both influence the children in the movie but end up giving them more burdens than they started out with. They start out as very likable characters, but the more we learn about them, we notice they are selfish and think very highly of themselves.
ReplyDeleteTo me, when the kids stood on their desk, as he had done in the beginning, it seemed like they were saying them would remember Mr. Keating and what he had taught them. They realized life was limitless, maybe not now at this school, but in the future. They were literally, standing up for him, though it was too late for him to actually stay at the school. Mr. Keating seems to know what he had done to Neil. By having the kids stand on their desks, it seemed to me to be an act of forgiveness. I think that is what Mr. Keating meant mostly when he thanked them.
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ReplyDelete1. Both Allie and Keating do what they think is best, even though they are impaired by their narcissism. Allie believes that America is dying, and therefore wants to save his family from the downfall. He believes that he has to get his family away before everything dies. He wants to save them, but his way of doing so is unsuccessful because he makes it about himself. Keating wants to bring something different to the boys' lives, but the way he does it is flawed. He bases his class on what he likes-romantics and Whitman. He lets them carry him on their shoulders. At first, it seems like they just like him because he frees them, but they like him because he makes them go against the rules. He makes them rip out the introduction, walk around, and spout poetry in class. He makes them stand on his desk to see a different perspective, but most of them just do it so they don't get yelled at. They eventually get in trouble for ripping out the introduction. They are almost expelled for standing on their desks. His attempt at showing them a new way of life through what he likes ended in them being yelled at for what he told them to do. He made their lives fun for the time he was there, but horrible once he was gone. He took away their sense of what is right at Welton, and when they have to go back to Welton ways, his influence ends in more trouble for them.
ReplyDelete2. I think the boys stand on their desks to show that they can be better than Welton. They don't just have to read the introduction and graph poetry, etc. They can see the world from a different perspective and defy those more powerful than them. They don't care what the consequences are, they just care about the experience, much like Keating. Most of what he does is only beneficial for the boys and himself. It doesn't move him up in the Welton society, and it ends in his being fired, but he does it anyway, for the experience. He thanks the boys because he apprecieates the experience they allowed him to have. Without that particular class, he wouldn't have made the same friends, touched the same people. He gave Todd courage and told Neil to stand up to his father (even if he ended up dead). He thanks the boys because they made it possible for him to be such an influence.
We seem to have forgotten that Allie did encourage free thinking--or at least he despised Americans who couldn't think for themselves. Unlike Keating, Allie actually gave the people in his town the opportunity to back out. He never gave his family that option because he felt so strongly about "saving them" and I guess you could say Keating felt the same way about his students, but they both opposed systems that didn't encourage free thinking. Just like Keating, Allie is the product of the world he is trying to escape. I think Keating is actually a lot more insecure than Allie is--Keating overcompensates for that insecurity by being bold and confident. Allie, on the other hand, legitimately thinks his way is the only way and never has the moments of doubt that Keating has. Allie probably would not have cried at Neil's suicide--he would have rationalized it and said that Neil did something wrong or didn't have a vision.
ReplyDeleteI think the boys stand on their desks at the end to make Keating feel better. It's not a very romantic or philosophic explaination for that ending, but it makes sense to me. The boys are grateful for what Keating taught them and they feel guilty that they turned against him after Neil's suicide. I think they see that he feels terrible and has probably lost all hope in himself and they do something as dramatic as standing on the tables to show him that he hasn't been a complete failure.
Allie Fox and Keating both have unconventional views of the world, in that they both think the world has somehow lost its vibrancy and vitality. Allie Fox sees America as a place full of humans devoid of conciousness of nature and the way humans are supposed to fit into nature. To remedy this soullessness, he thinks we must go out into nature and experience for ourselves. Keating holds a similar view, although he applies appreciation of nature and individuality not to living outside in the woods but to reading and writing poetry. Neither are afraid to be shunned by outsiders for their beliefs, although Keating is less obviously obnoxious about his beliefs than Fox. Yet, they both are needy for approval from their following (Fox from his family, Keating from his students). Eventually, they both sacrifice themselves for their beliefs.
ReplyDeleteAs I said before, like Fox, Keating is eager for some sort of approval, to make some sort of impression on his boys’ lives. The boys signing the paper seems like a betrayal, and denial of Keating’s teachings. They weren’t seizing the day and living the lives of individual human beings, they were succumbing to the horde. Them standing on the desks showed Keating that his teachings were not denied, and they won’t be forgotten. That is why Keating says thank you; he appreciates the acknowledgement of his teachings, and he likes basking in his students' approval. I think this need for a sign of approval from his students ties back to his arrogance, and perhaps also some insecurity.
1. Keating as the more palatable of the two brothers...I definitely agree with this idea. I think Allie was a bit more closed off. I don't mean that he was an introvert. I mean he saw the world through his own lens. Keating definitely sees the world through his own lens as well, but he has the ability to expand it to include others. Basically, Allie doesn't seem to always have the best interests of others in mind while Keating does (or so we think). When asked why he is there, Keating says that he returned to the school because of his love of teaching. I think that Allie loves to teach as well. However, Allie teaches to inform others of his ideas and show them what he knows. Keating teaches to inform others of bigger ideas and show them what THEY know. Keating definitely teaches his opinions, but his opinions show the boys how to form their own. This creates a softer character and makes Allie appear harsher with his ideas.
ReplyDelete2. I don't know how I feel about this line. I know that there is probably deep meaning behind it, but I thought it felt cliché. Right right. This movie is very cliché. I know that Keating is not simply thanking these boys to be polite. It could be a whole bunch of things. For starters, they stood up (literally) for him at the end. Then Keating could also be thanking them for making him feel like he made some sort of a difference. Keating could also be thanking the boys for helping him discover things about himself. His character is so optimistic at the beginning of the movie and in a way it almost seems like Keating could be a little too confident. I bet he went into that class believing that he held the power to really make a difference. However, through the movie, his character does falter. For example, the whole scene with Neil when the two of them are talking about Neil's father. Keating knows Neil is lying and I think that he might understand why Neil is lying, but I think he might also have wished that Neil was close enough with him to tell the truth. Then he really fails when he is sitting at Neil's desk. Yes, he made a difference. The difference in someone living or dying.
1. Mr. Keating and Allie certainly have a lot in common. They both have communities they care about, but that they think aren't being run in the right way. They both disregard social norms and get other people that they care about into trouble by trying to fix these communities. They are both somewhat blinded by the idea of their undertakings. Allie gets so wrapped up in the idea of creating a new civilization that he doesn't see the journey's affect on his family. He refuses to turn back or listen to their thoughts, and he even presses on when his first village is burned down and his second is washed away with the tide. Mr. Keating moves away from his wife and puts all his energy into helping the kids at Welton Academy. He's so excited about the improvements he's making for these kids that he doesn't realize when they are in danger of going too far. He gives the boys the idea to restart the Dead Poets Society, and he approves of it when he knows they will follow in his footsteps, even though it's against school rules and could get them expelled. He encourages Neil's acting, even though he knows it's against Mr. Perry's wishes. I don't blame Mr. Keating for Neil's death, but I think he lets his ideas for the school get carried away, and he loses control of the affect he has on his students.
ReplyDelete2. I think his meaning at the end was fairly simple. I got the sense that he felt repressed during his time at Welton, and as an adult he wants to change that for the current Welton students. His time as a teacher served both as an inspiration for the students, and as a way to make up for the repression he experienced at school. The way the kids react to his sincere form of teaching clearly means a lot to him. It shows him that he has made a difference to kids just like him. At the end of the film, most of the teachers and faculty at Welton blame Mr. Keating for Neil's death, and he loses his job because of it. He receives so much resentment for the work he's done at the school, and I think he starts to believe that Neil's death was partially his fault. The students standing on their desks at the end is a sign of gratitude and affection for Mr. Keating that he sincerely needs. This moment shows him that not everyone blames him. The kids appreciated his efforts to enrich their education, and they validate his work. He thanks them at the end for believing in him and for giving him something to be proud of, in spite of all the resentment he is receiving.
1. It is obvious that both Keating and Allie have very particular outlooks on life. Although they do it in different ways, they try very hard to make the people surrounding them think the same way that they do. Like I said in my previous blog post, Keating turns to teaching while Allie turns to the jungle. I get a sense that both men are taking advantage of being finally appreciated. Keating attended Welton, and was obviously forced to think and live a certain way like all the other boys. Allie was stuck in a small, run down town where no one would give any of his inventions the time of day. Maybe both men do force their opinions on people, but they are finally in a position to do that. It seems that both Allie and Keating got very eager and excited when they finally found an opportunity to be heard.
ReplyDelete2. The boys stand on their desks in the end to show Keating that they still stand by what he has taught them. It is an unfortunate situation for all of them, but this scene lifted my hopes. I think Keating thanks the boys for showing him that he really made an impact on them. Although it is kind of corny, it really is a touching moment. After all that has happened, the boys show Keating that they really heard what he was saying. I think Keating is also thanking the boys for just making an impact in his life. We talked a lot about Keating’s impact on the boys, but what about the boy’s impact on Keating? We don’t have a lot of back story on him, but I feel like his expression of gratitude in the last scene shows that he got what he was looking for.
1. I would say that the important thing that needs to be recognized about this movie is that Keating thinks that he is perfect and, because of this, he is not. Keating thinks that everything that he does is better than everything that other people do. This is evident when he tells the class to tear out the essay by Pritchard. This is obviously a respected essay and Pritchard is obviously a respected authority on Poetry or his book and this essay would not have been used for the class. Keating is so sure that he knows better that he does not even allow the possibility of the students agreeing with the essay. He tells them to tear it out before they have even had a chance to read it. This is what makes Keating so dangerous. He kills Neal just as much as Neal’s father kills Neal and possibly a bit more. Yes, Neal always liked acting but Keating basically told him to go for it without considering Neal’s fathers point of view. Actually, that is not totally true because Keating asks Neal to consult his father first and that confused me because the rest of the film seems to paint Keating as a free spirited person who does not care one iota what anyone else thinks because he is always right. However it does appear as if Keating knows Neal is lying when he tells him he talked to his father. If that was in fact the case, than Keating is just as foolishly smart as I thought. Keating killed Neal by giving him what one might call dangerous ideas. I know that the idea of dangerous ideas is frowned upon (especially at Paideia) but not all ideas are safe for everyone. Some ideas should not be had. Keating’s ideas gave Neal the idea that what his father wanted was wrong. This caused him to rebel and eventually to take his own life. I know that didn’t really seem to have that much to do with the original question, but it seemed important because it shows my point of view. I like Keating, but he is a dangerous rebel just like Allie. Allie’s children are just like Keating’s class in that their leader/parent/teacher has impressed them with many strong beliefs that cause them to trust him. Both movies are very similar in that they are about the students trusting or not trusting the teacher. In the end of dead poets society most of the students still trust the teacher and this is made to seem good, but really these students have just been brainwashed by Keating. They were brainwashed before, but at least they were brainwashed like everyone else so they could have had a chance of living a normal life. At the end of Mosquito Coast the students (children) lose faith in the teacher (father). This is a happier ending because at least they have a chance of leading normal lives. In short, both Allie and Keating have dangerous ideas. The movies are basically the same accept Allies students snap out of it and most of Keating’s do not.
ReplyDelete2. In light of what I talked about in the last answer I find the end partly confusing. I thought that Keating had realized that what he did to his students was wrong and that he was not always right. I initially thought that he was thanking them for teaching him this, but that did not really make sense because they were showing him that they totally bought into what he had said. I hate to be so cynical, but I am beginning to believe that the only explanation of the end was that it showed that Keating learned nothing from Neal’s death or that he thought that he learned something and he did not like it. If that is the case, he is thanking his students who stood on the chairs for confirming his previous beliefs. If that is the case I am rather unhappy with the movie because it didn’t really have a point. Keating never learned anything, and the administrators and parents never learned anything. The students only thought they learned something and possibly they did, but what they learned was dangerous and partly false. I don’t like analyzing this movie because I liked it, and I hate that I don’t now. Several people in class said that this movie was manipulative, but isn’t that what movies are for? All movies are manipulative and if you look past the manipulation all movies are empty and pointless.
ReplyDelete1. Both Keating and Fox hold views that make them unique to their respective societies. They disagree with the ideologies of the cultures that seem to surround them. Fox hates the greedy, lazy attitudes of people living in the modern age. Keating dislikes the strict, narrow minded, formulaic way of thinking being passed down at places like Welton. Fox decides to abandon that society and start his own. He sees no hope in the America that he leaves behind. He even goes so far as to convince everyone that it has been destroyed by war. Keating does the opposite. He goes into the belly of the beast to try and make a difference. He still sees hope that the students can become free thinkers despite their environment. Keating comes across as more kind and understanding that Fox. He gives the impression of truly caring and wanting to help. Whatever his shortcomings, I do think he was trying to help, even if it turns out his plan wasn’t great. Fox tries to give this impression, but fails. He clearly sees himself as ruler, leader, and the only person with the right idea. He becomes cruel when somebody (even his own child) disagrees with his vision. The fact that Keating is able to come across as caring may make him even more manipulative than Fox though. He’s much harder to pin and therefore he can easily slip away without being seen as a guilty party (to the audience). His desire to bring stirring change to the school turns out to be detrimental. The only thing is, my conviction on this point is lessened by the fact that I don’t think the sequence of events in the film was quite logical. Neil’s suicide just does not seem to make much sense considering what built up to it. That gives me some more sympathy for Keating. If I (the audience member able to view all of the events transpiring, not just around Keating) saw no logical build up to Neil’s suicide, I don’t know how Keating could have. Still, if I take the film as I think it’s meant to be taken (Weir probably wants us to believe his story makes sense), then I suppose Keating’s immaturity turned out to be devastating just as Fox’s did.
ReplyDelete2. As I said in class, I found this scene quite strange. Cheesiness aside, I find myself wondering if what came across was intentional or not. I find it extremely ironic that the kids who just condemned Keating now stand up to support him. They only do so when there will be no consequences for themselves. The music’s crescendo makes me think the scene is meant to be inspiring. “Thank you, boys. Thank you.” Is this their message that despite everything, he made a difference and they are now free thinkers? They’ve already guaranteed their safety by signing that paper. What’s so inspiring? His “thank you” just makes me think that he finds a silver lining in that he get’s to see the kids meaninglessly stick it to mean old Mr. Nolan one last time. If anything, Keating’s actions in the film proved that his aims are pointless. He met an immovable object in Neil’s dad. Neil would end up dead before realizing his dream. After Keating leaves the class, the kids will sit down and resume their day. They’ll go to Ivy League schools and do whatever their parents want. If they’re going to branch off, it will be after college and they will have to reach that decision independently.
As some people said in the discussion, Keating and Allie are very similar in the way that they hold themselves in high reguard. Neither asks the people around them about their opinion. Both are very close-minded in the way that they view other people, I believe that both men do not allow others to voice their opinion. Its either their opinion or nothing. As many people have said, Keating uses less extreme methods to preach his beliefs, but in reality Keating manipulates the lack of freedom in his students to make them more susceptible to his ideas. In a similar way, Allie uses the devotion and trust that his family feels towards him to keep them confined to his protection. The boys in Keating’s class have never questioned what they were told before, and ironically, they never question what Keating teaches them in class either. Just because something seems different, doesn’t mean that it is right.
ReplyDeleteI think that Keating is thanking the boys for believing in him. Although he is kicked out of the school, I think that his is grateful that he had made some kind of impact, its can be debated on if it was a good or bad impact. I believe that most teachers appreciate knowing how they have impacted others, so I believe that some of Keating’s feelings come from this idea. On another note, Keating could also be thanking them for teaching him about how he can further his mission to creating and cultivating individual minds. Keating knows he messed up, but I think that he learned from his mistakes, maybe…
Although it may seem tempting to associate Allie and Keating because of their failures, I beg to differ. What these two fine gentlemen actually have in common, and arguably Aubrey, is desire— their reason to live. A life of normality could not bring contentment to any these fellers. They posses higher ideals that they intend to put into play somewhere within their realities. Their own humanity limits each of these individuals in their pursuits. Allie thinks he can see a sickness in America, and perhaps there is one. Plenty of people might have seen the sickness, but a special few, I am willing to bet, were willing to move their families to the jungle because of it. These three men have both vision and, more importantly, will to put their vision into action.
ReplyDeleteIn my life, people throw around the phrase "thank you" quite a bit. They usually use it in the context of politeness or formality. True thanking, with meaning behind it, is one of the most sacred practices human kind has the capability of participating in. True thanking comes not from getting what you want, but getting what you never asked for. Thanks need not be communicated. True thanks is known by all members of its reaching. And the feeling of true thanks is, indeed, the soft pulling on your eyes—tears in the corners. One is humbled by thanks. "Oh great and mighty cosmos, why have you blessed me so?" one might ask. Keating needn't have said anything, all knew. In a way, both parties were thanking. They for a candle to bear against the darkness, and he for the knowledge that the candles would not go out. The point being...well I don't know.
1. Keating and Allie go against the grain. Their goal is change. Allie dives into Geronimo and tells everyone to get up and change their houses from shambles to tree houses. Keating cannonballs into all of the morals the school puts up. The effect of their wild ideas and drastic manner shares the same arch of events. Before Allie and Keating arrive, spirits are low, the people of Geronimo are impoverished and the boys at Welton have had their spirits hammered into cookie cutters. Then there are scenes of euphoria. The ice machine works! The boys are singing and dancing and acting! And finally, disaster strikes and the movie ends on a bittersweet note. Both Keating and Allie, though not the main characters, initiate and end the plot. They are both trying to insert their beliefs into a group of people.
ReplyDelete2. I think Keating meant that he was thankful for the boys’ willingness to let him into their hearts and to tell them with his tone that he was sorry. The boys stand up on their desks to show Keating that even though he is leaving, his legacy will go on with them. They will continue to carpe diem and look at things from a different perspective as they are demonstrating. In a way, they are eternalizing Keating. Keating talked to them about everyone dying one day but the boys are saying that his ideas and lessons won’t die.
1. I have to say, John turned me on my opinion of Keating during the discussion on Friday. At first I thought he was the most inspirational and perfect teacher in the world. The keyword is perfect. Turns out, like every human being, he's flawed. His problem is his ego. Allie had the exact same problem. The two men let their ego drive their every decision, which eventually leads to a bad ending. Allie died and Keating has to face the death of his student as well as losing his job. Neither of the men let any other opinions be voiced besides their own. They believed everything they said was true, and that is a fatal flaw. Unfortunately their bad trait leads to other's pain. Nowanda is no longer and school and a student is dead, not to mention the Fox's no longer have a father.
ReplyDelete2.This question is either more complicated than I can process or it's straight forward. When the boys stood up they were in a sense saying that they would continue on what Keating had taught them, which isnt exactly a bad thing. I think that Keating was content with his time at Wellington now that his students understood his mantra. I think that Keating was thanking the boys because he no longer felt responsible for Neil's death.
1. The biggest difference is still that I hate Allie and don't hate Keating. But the second biggest difference is that Allie is obsessive and Keating is just passionate. When Keating starts to see himself causing trouble, he steps back (to an extent.) Allie sees his family in danger and presses on. Both are idealists, both have visions for something to be different, but I would argue Allie's is more dangerous because of that obsessive component. While Neil dies in Dead Poets Society and Allie is the only one to die in Mosquito Coast, I think Allie's death had much more directly to do with his own actions than Neil's death had to do with Keating's actions. Keating is certainly not perfect, but I think he had a desire to help (as well as a desire to succeed, as we all do), where Allie simply wanted to see himself succeed and be praised for the genius he is.
ReplyDelete2. I think the boys standing on the desks is an apology, and his words are an acceptance. As we mentioned in class, the fact that they signed the paper negated what they did at the end, and so their act of standing on the tables was and saying "O Captain My Captain" was an apology. I think on another layer, Keating was apologizing as well. For whatever part he may have had in Neil's death, for whatever part he had in getting Charlie expelled, for not being the person he thought he could be to them. But I think he is also thanking them for making him feel like he succeeded in some way and that some of what he tried to teach will be left with the boys.
Mr.Keating and Allie Fox are very similar as characters. Both characters manipulate the people they care about for their ultimate goal.Mr.Keating uses his power as teacher to manipulate his kids into doing what he wants, disobey everything the school has taught them. Who is he to decide what values are better for his students? the students however have no choice but to obey him. Allie uses his power as father of his family to get his family to do everything he wants. Similar to Keating, he knows what he wants and he is going to have it his way and his way only. The big reason these two are basically brothers is because their ego is the main driving force in all of their decisions that are made.
ReplyDeleteI think Keating is thanking his students for teaching him. His students taught him that his ways could work and the students embraced his methods. Keating is thanking the students for embracing him and really following him.He is also thanking them for standing up (literally standing up) for him.